Interview Transcript

Interviewer (Karissa)

Can you give an introduction, or some insight into your works and experiences with water or the ocean?

Jalak

"Sure. That's a beautiful question.

I have been choreographing since I was a child and I grew up in an area, Turtle Island, where it was very much landlocked. There was a lot of water, and we would spend a lot of time in the summer swimming, being in the river and the lakes. But it was later in life when I moved to California, and I really had a chance to spend time in the ocean in San Diego. So I started swimming every day, and I, was swimming and maybe, like, swimming in a mile out a mile or two out and back, and just so amazed that the world that was under the water, the kelp fish, the Garibaldi, the tiger sharks, and I also found that it made me a very healthy.

I wasn't getting sick. I would get a lot of colds and I would get the flu. But once I started swimming in the cold ocean, my immune system strengthened. So that was an amazing thing. So when I was in California, I created several works based on the ocean, and a part of that was just my sense of listening to the place. I love being in the water, so I found great joy in that, and I wanted to just see how that part of the body of the earth, body and water connect to my body or the body of the imagination that I have with choreography with the dancers? One of the bigger pieces that I made in California was called Submerged. Submerged was a piece and multiple layers.

One iteration was on a stage on the surfboard up high. I put them in kind of full wetsuits and goggles, and they danced around, and then the other iteration was a full hour long show that was an installation that existed at T squared and submerged was a moveable installation. So I created three video environments, and I did the video for this. I filmed underwater. My process was a lot of just watching. How does the kelp move? And then interpreting that into my feelings and how to deal with our bodies.

I wanted to create an immersive environment in the room. So I created three pieces of fabric, and with dancers going through, they were in the water and rejecting the digital technology. And then I also worked with mirrors. So I cut out mirrors, put them on boards, and then put projectors onto the mirrors so that it would splash those projectors, the mirror design, over the space. And like a kind of feeling you get when you're underwater, you look up and it's all light. And then I explored and went, well, how do you move through this kind of environment that was built? But it was reflective of my experiences, particularly the moment. And, I just wanted to be in tune. A lot of my choreography is about being in tune with where I am and listening to how does that speak to me?

Another bigger piece that I did was a collaboration with Amy Schumer, and we created a piece called Ocean's Motion, which was a family friendly children's piece at Kennedy theater. It was an hour long show. It was about two thousand thirteen. I had a cast of like 50 dancers who were all different and, fish characters or sea animals and sea anemones As you know, we created an imaginary script for that for my portion of that would involve choreography and also creating projection design. So for that, we talked about filming in the ocean, but we wanted lots of fabric training, and this was going to be the projection behind the dance. We decided not to film because it's just too dangerous. So what we did was we went down to the UH (University of Hawaii) Dive pool. We asked for permission from athletics, and we got permission to film, and we put a big blue tarp on to cover all the numbers and everything. So it was like a city mill paint tarp And then we put in a tripod and put heavy sandbags on the bottom, and put in a small underwater camera. It was really, really beautiful. And then that created our production design."

Interviewer (Karissa)

How do you navigate having performers dance in those kinds of unpredictable environments? Like you said, the tides. You don't know what's going to happen with the waves. Is there a way that you go about those kinds of things?

Jalak

"So I usually work with dancers who are comfortable already in those environments, very hard to dance on. sand. It's very hard to dance in the ocean. There's a lot of presence in the ocean, in the water. You know, we're talking about water being very healing, but it also can't be very tragic or dangerous. Water has many powers. So I think the biggest thing with water is to respect it and respect its power.

But that's also why I am so fascinated by it, so recently we filmed a project with my dad's company called Another Round Around the Sun. We filmed it in Koko head crater that I knew was shallow and it was minus tide on the day that we filmed. So that meant you could just walk like a mile in this particular area and only have two or three feet of water. I know that the ocean is very cleansing and part of being in that space was just honoring where I live, close by to where I am. Where my home is, and wanting to connect on another level to be in that space and that place with dancers that love being in the water as well."

Interviewer (Karissa)

Would you say that the environment shaped your choreography, or do you feel like the ocean, that you shape it, or is it kind of a symbiotic relationship that you have? 

Jalak

"My relationship with the ocean is symbiotic. 

I do feel the environment shapes my choreography. I often listen very carefully before I do any kind of choreography about a specific locale or whether I can film in that locale for the stage. I spend a lot of time just meditating in this practice of yoga meditation. So I spend that time sometimes just going there to visit and listen and see what emerges in my consciousness and what emerges in my mind or my imagination and then I follow that. And sometimes it can sound or music, a piece or a word or image of people. I just find the meditation on the tide is very powerful in terms of receiving information from the ocean. And I also know that our bodies are made, I don't know, 70 or 80% water.

So even the moons kind of impact our bodies. I noticed whenever there's a full moon, you know, our classes are always people in general, dancers who are always very lively and and, you know, there's a calendar that affects and the almanacs as well, so that it has water all tied to water and the impact of the planets on water. So, yes, the habitat environment affects my choreography. I'm a visual learner and kinesthetic learner so visually I get very inspired by line and form on an abstract level. How does the rock shape the land? How does a piece of driftwood sitting against grass or an area of trees? How does it create imagery? And so then I work with that, especially if I'm choreographing in the space I work with texture within the environment. If I'm bringing that to the stage, then of course it's the memory of that place or that experience, but it definitely impacts also in terms of any kind of costume and the color of the costume as well, I also ask for permission from the earth, the water in the sky, the trees to be there and be present in space."

Interviewer (Karissa)

How does a force of nature such as water influence embodiment, for example, how might it shape a dancer's ability or need to be grounded or muscle tension or anything else you might have noticed?

Jalak

"From swimming in the ocean, you notice that it helps you release. I think the ocean helps {in healing} with salt. So the salt is healing. Then the water helps you release. We don't. I mean, there's so much mystery in those. Yeah. Even scientists don't know everything about the ocean. There is deep sea that they do not know about. And so I think living here, it's very, very powerful to be surrounded by water and all of the creatures that are inside of it, and definitely impacts embodiment to embody to really listen to even, you know, you notice whales might be jumping. You might be going into water and seeing dolphins. There's a lot going on down there. And I think it impacts I mean, I think our bodies are impacted by everything around us, whether we're surrounded by humans or by nature, by animals or by buildings. It impacts our mental health, impacts our spiritual health and our physical health as well.

From a dance perspective, I definitely think it's very much about release. The ocean helps and is a good tool for dancers to release stress. You know, learn to move differently because there's also the texture of water when you’re moving. It pushes against you in different ways. One thing that the ocean has taught me about sense. So that's a separate thing. I'm not a surfer, but I when I was in a swimming a lot I was surrounded a lot of surfers, a lot of surfers in my life, and one thing I learned was just to sit and watch but I do just still like artistically and aesthetically, to explore images of water on screen and how our bodies respond to that visually kinesthetically to the immersion actually in the water itself. "

Interviewer (Karissa)

Yeah. I'm going to go on a little bit more to queer identity and gender neutrality. So, do you see fluidity? Literally, metaphorically or both, as part of your personal identity and how?

Jalak

"Yes. I think I'm a very fluid person. I see my gender is very fluid. I feel I have masculine qualities and qualities I also feel often myself is very nonbinary as well. So I'm very comfortable moving between any of those spaces. And I really see gender as humanity. I see myself as a soul. I see myself as an energy, as a being and the form, the physical form that embodies the world that I live in is a physical form that's formed by many different influences.

I never have ever subscribed to society’s idea of gender. And it's always puzzled me ever since I was a kid. Maybe it's because of how I was brought up with my family, that that was normal. And, you know, it's only later than I realized... Okay, it’ not! Most people don't see themselves that way. From a yogic lens, there is that philosophy that the self is not just an individual person in a larger sense of how we think, how we are is not something that we attach to the body. How do you present yourself and what kind of clothes you wear? And for me, it's just like what fits my body is easiest to fit. My body is often women's clothes, but I also wear men's clothes, and I also wear all kinds of clothes I prefer. My comfort level is in that gender neutral place. It depends on where you are in the world.

I think that there is great energy. In that respect, it's really about life force. the life force in each one of us. The life force, nature around us is what puts us in harmony. And I think that's what dancers do; consciously or unconsciously. I think that dancers channel energies around them and I think that we or as dancers, we are channel owners of that energy healing spaces for creating transformation spaces and the deeper we listen, the deeper we meditate on that, we are able to sort of be in service to nature."

Interviewer (Karissa)

Do you see movement in water as a form of resistance or protest in any way? And if so, what might that entail? what kind of political or social meanings do you feel emerge from the fluid environment of water, if there are any?

Jalak

"I could just go back to this question of gender and fluidity. So I had never thought about water as being a representation of my queer identity, but I think it's very beautiful that you pose that question because I think that I would say yes the idea of my understanding of life as being able to, with or be with or respond to or listen to is that kind of fluidity is perhaps also what how I understand the world. Yeah. In terms of gender. So yes. Yes.

Political protest. Well, one other piece that I did was a short film with Larry Asakawa. I'm really disturbed by what happens with RimPac. RimPac is a U.S government activity that happens every year here in Hawaii. And many, many, many governments participate. And they do wartime exercises in the ocean and they sometimes experiment with, you know, exploding bombs or sonar and testing. And that sonar testing has been known to affect whales and mammals. And, It just has disturbed {me} for many, many years. I feel it. I feel it when they're here. I feel that in my body somehow. I don't know how to explain that. And then studies have shown that whales and dolphins can also become deaf and blind. There's all kinds of harm that the sonar testing has done to those animals or those mammals. And, so we created a piece that was then shown, as part of the festival for the Pacific Arts at Pacific conferences and events, with Won who is a great artist from New Zealand. And he had invited us to show this installation and give a paper. So we gave a paper and wrote a paper about this. But the intent of it was to bring awareness to this activity that still goes on. It had lessons for a couple of years. There was some pushback, but I understand it is ramping up again. So something that I think, you know, people, people who live here know about, but because it's happening in the ocean, it's kind of abstract to everyone. So that harm is still happening. So that that's political."

Interviewer (Karissa)

What memories surfaced for you when you are in water? Does choreographing or dancing alongside water challenge any assumptions that you had about yourself?

Jalak

"That's the big question. It just always depends. Where and usually here in Hawaii when I am in the water. And I love to swim in Lanikai and I love the water over there. And it always actually brings me to the present rather than to a place of memory. Because it just calls me to be present in one,you know, one you're in the ocean. It's pleasant, it's joyful. And then the other is just feeling, I often have a little ritual that I do in the water where I have a conversation with the water. It's just me for a few minutes, and I, you know, ask for any insights or clarity as water I find brings clarity. So clarity if I have a difficult situation or situation. I'm not sure what to do about that. I just ask for that clarity and ask Ocean Water to help me.

What my memories of water really are. My younger years growing up in a lake was called Yellow Creek lake. It was in northern Indiana (near Kokomo, Indiana) where my mother's family had grown up, and we just spent a lot of time in that water. It's just lake water. Canoeing, I was canoeing a lot in the boat and by myself, you know, like, out in the by the huge lake. But they let me go. There was no restriction for letting me go out.

So I have a lot of great memories there."

Interviewer (Karissa)

The last question is, thinking about all of these questions; Is there anything else you'd like to share about your experience that was not asked?

Jalak

"I think one thing that just is a little bit separate, but it's part of all of it is so I lived in New York City for thirteen years and one of the dances that my dance company had been commissioned to do was more a celebration of the animals. And this giant cathedral and there would be the ensemble, and then 5000 animals came into the space, including llamas and camels and ants and worms and dogs and cats.And it was really wild looking back... It was pretty wild. But one of the pieces... was about the blue green sea and I was asked to choreograph that dance And it just, even though it was New York City in this very urban, concrete place, I really connected to that from my imagination and from my impulse to choreograph, because we were able to create just big giant waves from one end of the space to the other. And in the other end of the space with thirty dancers. And, you know, I always put out: what is that? you know what is the ocean? What is it to think about the ocean in a stone and concrete environment? But also think about sending out intentions to care for the planet, which is part of what this event was about was an annual event that happened in New York City."

Interviewer (Karissa)

Thank you so much. This is so insightful for me.I'm so appreciative of you taking the time to share your experience and your stories, and being so vulnerable. So thank you so much.